Some questions about S&S

[jeffb]

*I've crossposted this at the OD&D boards as well as DF- I did not realize ELG had it's own forum*

I've read the reviews, and as much as I can find on this game, and and it look like it will fit my needs, but I do have a couple of general questions.

1) what is the font size on the pocket edition? (and for that matter the standard book, and 3 separate book version?) It's hard to tell on the lulu preview- are we talking AD&D DMG, or Moldvay/Cook/Marsh Basic, Arduin Grimoire (hope not) etc (my eyes are not what they used to be)

2) How much..err..stuff...is there? i.e. How many spells are in the book, how many monsters?, How many magic items? that type of thing.

3) And just how compatible will S&S be with O/A D&D and/or the true retroclones.? (i.e. will I be able to do on the fly conversion if need be if I want to run a S&W adventure for example, or use a AD&D monster?)

4) will S&S see support via the great retro-zines like Fight-On and Knockspell?

I feel that mechanically S&S will suit my new "project" which is a mish mash Swords & Sorcery setting- something of a Hyboria meets Glorantha meets Tekumel- Sorcery is rare but present (often used by the corrupt but not always), religion/cults/priests of the gods are extremely present in everyday life, and it is a humano-centric world- no dwarves, elves, or such , but possibly a couple "alien" races ala Barsoom's Greens or Telumel's Pe Choi.

Thanks in advance for anyone who can help me out


P.S. - a PDF "preview" or overview of the game would be very cool and likely very useful to prospective buyers- especially those who may not realize that the game is "old school D&D" in intent, but has some modern traits as well (which for me sounds perfect)

[islestrike]

Hello There,

1) Not sure, except to say I find the books easy to read. The old school version (3 booklets) is in single column, whereas the standard version is in two column format down the page. I have the standard version Monstrous Mayhem and that is just a slightly larger book than the old school booklets ...meaning fonts should be similar. If you have problem eye sight or get tired reading maybe you will find the single column format of the books easier ...they sure are nostalgic too! I am awaiting delivery of the two pocket editions books so I can't comment on those for now.

2) In terms of scope and scale I find the game to be similar in size to the original OD&D 3 brown books. Classes go up to lvl10, there are 74 wizard spells, 30 cleric spells, about 60ish monsters, and a smattering of magical item descriptions at the very end.

3) S&S uses a different combat resolution, based on the Man vs. Man combat table of Chainmail. Monsters & Men roll 2d6 on the table, and make a number of attacks roughly equal to their character lvl. or HD, plus pips. The monster descriptions give the equivalent weapon type or a specific attack routine in order to use the table. This info will be lacking in standard OD&D, AD&D, retro clone monster descriptions. Whether the ACs from all these systems match up is a good question which I do not know at the moment. Also monsters in S&S can have special abilities and not all of them have corresponding equivalents in other systems.

Finally combat seems more deadly in S&S, since once you start to make multiple rolls on the attack table you are bound to hit, plus you can distribute any "pips" you have to just the rolls needed to make them succeed. Furthermore warriors can apply any Dexterity bonuses they have against the attackers to hit roll. How all this relates to compatibility of regular D&D material is a question I am eager to find out in actual play.

4) Hope so.

I have to go now but I'll try and post a few more thoughts later ...hope this helps for now.

Cheers!

[Jason Vey]

The font in the pocket edition and standard book is 10 point Souvenir. The font in the 3LBBs is 9 point (I think) Century Gothic.

You'll need to do a bit of work to convert if there's no equivalent monster in S&S, as it uses a different system and a different armor class progression, but it should be pretty fast work. So on the fly if there is an equivalent in S&S, and maybe 10 minutes of work otherwise.

I have opened up room for S&S support in Fight On; Calithena has the details but in essence if it's new rules systems I want to see them first to ensure it doesn't step on anything I'm doing...though that shouldn't be much of an issue as FO! avoids open content, and any new rules for S&S would have to be open content. Adventure modules are fair game, as are reviews and philosophy-type articles.

Yes, Tim and I have discussed a "quick start" rules set. It's on the docket but isn't in active compiling as we have too much on our plates at the moment.

[islestrike]

A follow-up to my earlier post.

1) Actually comparing the standard edition to the 3 booklet version with this in mind, I find it is the standard edition that seems easier on the eyes and easier to read surprisingly. As pointed out the font is 10 point, but I also think it has to do with the 2 column layout focusing the eyes better. Take that for what you will.

3) I surveyed a selection of beasts between various D&D/Clone systems and S&S. What I found was if they are lower lvl HD creatures of < 5HD, then usually they are spot on in terms of HD to the S&S versions. IF the HD > 5 then in certain cases the S&S version tend to have an extra 1-2 HD. Giants are a good example. AC is a bit tricky in that S&S uses an ascending system in the range 1-8 and is not about your ability to be hit but what you are wearing. Finally you need to convert a monster's attack routine in to actual weapon equivalents in S&S in order use the attack table properly. But all in all this is a very small amount of work compared to converting say 3.5E, and with familiarity I can see a good referee being able to do this on the fly. It looks too since most S&S monster descriptions are very close in HD ability to their D&D/Clone versions that the resulting encounters wouldn't be unbalanced, although I want to confirm this is the case in actual play.

Cheers!

[Jason Vey]

Monster HD does suffer from a bit of creep in S&S from the original sources. This is because in S&S all hit dice are d6's, while in other sources they might be d8, d10, or d12. In order to keep hit points where I felt they needed to be, I altered the number of hit dice.

This does have the tangential effect of powering up certain creatures, but if you don't go in with prior assumptions, that's not a problem

[jeffb]

Thanks IS, and Thanks Jason for your input (on DF and ODD as well)! I'm going to get a copy ordered soon on Lulu possibly along with a copy of Monstrous Mayhem

[jeffb]

Pocket edition ordered ;D If S&S is in fact what I'm looking for , then I'll grab a copy of MM as well.

On a side note- did Lulu jack up shipping costs recently? $13.00 for priority mail is way over the top-especially considering the flat rate "stuff everything you can inside" box is $3-4 cheaper.

[Jason Vey]

Yeah, Lulu's shipping is obnoxious. One of the reasons I want to get into distribution, or at least get a print run done so I can do direct sales.

[jeffb]

Just got the book today, read through much of it, and so far, yeah..I'm psyched ;D It seems to have that little bit of extra "rules-granularity" I've always wanted out of the LBBS or Moldvay/Cook/Marsh while still keeping within the intended spirit of those games.

S&S reminds of me what I had HOPED C&C would be before it was published (and unfortunately I was sorely disappointed with C&C once I purchased and ran a minicampaign). C&C had the right intentions, but didn;t have a thick enough coat of "old school " paint in some places and it's unified mechanic (SIEGE engine) is very wonky, IME.

I'll be posting a "mini review" at some point at various forums. This game def deserves more press

[Jason Vey]

See, I'm a fan of C&C--indeed, you'll note I took a lot of open content from there for S&S. The SIEGE Engine can be wonky if played as written--the solution is to split the difference. Use a flat TN of 15, with +5 for Primes. Some people do 18/+6, but I personally think multiples of 5 are easier to deal with.

Anyway, Jeff, glad you dig S&S! Welcome to the party!

[jeffb]

Jun 10, 2009 7:00:01 GMT -5 Jason Vey said:

See, I'm a fan of C&C--indeed, you'll note I took a lot of open content from there for S&S. The SIEGE Engine can be wonky if played as written--the solution is to split the difference. Use a flat TN of 15, with +5 for Primes. Some people do 18/+6, but I personally think multiples of 5 are easier to deal with.

Anyway, Jeff, glad you dig S&S! Welcome to the party!

Thanks Jason-

There were several places where "I think I've seen this before" came to mind- I supect these are the bits from C&C.

I do agree that using your version of the SIEGE mechanic would make for less "wonk" but my issue is really with Prime/Non Prime in general. The fact that a low STR score PRIME'ed yields a far better bonus (in effect) than a High STR score Non-Prime drives me absolutely batty and for whatever OCD reason I cannot "forgive" that issue ;D That said I do feel C&C is a good game, but perhaps TOO confused- - it sits too squarely in the middle of being "old school" and just a stripped down version of D20 for me- losing the flavor of either system. Identity crisis, perhaps?

I feel S&S does a much better job of doing what C&C intended to- just MY opinion, but thats how I feel upon initial reading. I think the Chainmail derived combat system, Spellcasting Rolls, attribute check system, a few of the "class exclusives" (Fighters & DEX, e.g.), as well as some other small things add ALOT of flavor and make the game unique/distinct while still remaining very true to original intent and spirit of the D&D game- which frankly is what I've been looking for since 3E surfaced 9 years ago.

[Jason Vey]

I say this in all honesty, Jeff...that's the nicest compliment anyone has yet paid Spellcraft & Swordplay. Thank you. Seriously.

[jeffb]

You are certainly welcome- feel free to quote the crap out of me for your Lulu page or wherever else!