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Post by shadowwarrior on Jul 13, 2009 16:44:04 GMT -5
Ah well, it's here for anyone who wants it, house rule 'n' all.
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Post by shadowwarrior on Jul 13, 2009 10:05:56 GMT -5
Thanks, Jason, I'm glad you like them. I find them invaluable, especially the thief one. New players really seem to find it helps them pick up the nitty gritty quickly as well so I'm glad to help.
They aren't quite everything you need in one place - it doesn't have the stat modifiers for example (I'm working a general usage one with the multi-purpose data in it to close that gap) - but a very good start.
Be aware that thief one has my house rule data in it whereby non-human thieves are charged an XP surcharge to compensate for the unlimited progression potential and skill kickers. I've found unless you do this no one plays a human thief.
I'm currently working on one for assassins and will crank out the others in due course, including my house rule clarifications on how you do actually crank the mechanism for turning undead, dispelling evil, etc.
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Post by shadowwarrior on Jul 12, 2009 17:19:46 GMT -5
Thanks, greyharp, that's exactly what I use them for. I also use them extensively myself as it summarises all the information I need as a ref in one place as well. I'm currently working on the assassin one.
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Post by shadowwarrior on Jul 12, 2009 15:23:06 GMT -5
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Post by shadowwarrior on Jul 12, 2009 15:15:36 GMT -5
Ah yes, but as I said it's not really a ref's screen that's the point, although you could certainly use that as an objective and this as a kicking off point. My target is the conversion of all the semi-ambiguous narrative "charts" (and how wonderfully old school that is) into actual charts. Yes, I could (and am, but slowly) do it myself, but I'd rather not. I'd rather someone at Elf Lair did it for me and then sold it back to me and a couple of hundred other folks and made some money out of an easy (but dull) job. There's a lot of blurb in the class descriptions as well that could simply be integrated into the level table to cut down on needless verbiage (opposed skill checks), and in some cases reduced ambiguity (turning) or just weird oversight (climb). Here's a little something I knocked up along these lines, a crib sheet for thieves, basically everything you need to run a thief in one handy place. As well as all the stuff from the thief class section, there's things like difficulty bonuses and opposed skill blurb is turned into a handy lookup table. There's also a sight of one of my house rules in there: non-human thieves pay an XP surcharge to compensate for there being no level limit and them being generally better thieves than humans. I offer it here, free for all to use. Jason, you can stick it up on your Lulu store if you like and think others would find it useful. Enjoy. S&S Thieves' Reference Sheet: www.mediafire.com/file/jg3lmmja0uz/S&S Reference Sheet - Thief.pdf
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Post by shadowwarrior on Jul 11, 2009 16:09:02 GMT -5
Yes, it was the generic Savage Worlds assemble it yourself screen that I exactly had in mind. Print it yourself pages that you stick to your own cardstock. Clearly it is beyond the economics of Elf Lair to fund a glossy card screen but converting all the blocks of verbiage into tables helps speed the game and cuts the haggling over some of the ambiguity narrating such a thing rather than presenting it as a table introduces.
It's also an opportunity to address some of the inconsistencies, e.g. the climb mods for thieves are narrated in a text block rather than listed in the advancement table as the others.
I know I could do it myself but I'd rather pay someone else to do it as then it gives Jason an opportunity to make money.
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Post by shadowwarrior on Jul 11, 2009 15:58:38 GMT -5
There's nothing wrong with the reference tables as such, in fact it's an admirable summary and acts as a superb contents/index, but without the stats in with the blurb, you are playing the game with two fingers in the book, one in the list page and one in the blurb page.
Trust me on this! It may be different for you, Jason, because you are 100% au fait with the critters anyway, but for those of us fresh to the game that isn't so.
I'm telling you, this'd be a sure fire seller and the best of all worlds for everyone! Combine the two monster sections, add stats in the blurb blocks, add in a few new beasts (nothing weird, there are still some omissions - spiders for instance) and job done!
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Post by shadowwarrior on Jul 11, 2009 15:46:18 GMT -5
12p is designed for Flash Gordon, Buck Rogers, Star Wars kind of games. Most excellent indeed - I'm looking forward to some ray gun toting, oxygen pill surviving in deep space populated by Hawkmen action already! I'm a big fan of Slipstream.
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Post by shadowwarrior on Jul 10, 2009 16:46:12 GMT -5
Also, please take note of the formatting gaffe on page 126 that messes up the column splits, and re-download if you haven't already. Ah, ignore my previous, I see now it's actually page 127 that's screwed up, not page 126.
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Post by shadowwarrior on Jul 10, 2009 16:37:11 GMT -5
I'm a pulp SF person myself - Flash Gordon, Buck Rogers, etc. I'm guessing Twelve Parsecs is going to be a bit too hard boiled for that sort of game.
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Post by shadowwarrior on Jul 10, 2009 16:30:34 GMT -5
I'm as much of a fan of the old school method of presenting monsters as the next person, and the complete list of monsters stats followed by the blurb free of stats certainly harkens back to the old days. But there is a reason no one does it like that any more - I think you know what I'm saying While it's a nice piece of nostalgia, it makes use during play just a little bit less easy than it should be for a light 'n' frothy game. The ideal world for me would be both, a tabular summary as per current (at the back or front, not bothered), plus the monster blurb with stats also present as part of each monster's block. I'd happily pay good money for a "Monster Manual" reformatted like that, even more so given that the Deluxe edition doesn't include the monster from MM. Sounds like not a lot of work for a potential good return. How about it, Jason?
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Post by shadowwarrior on Jul 10, 2009 16:23:17 GMT -5
Well, maybe not quite although an expensive card printed glossy screen would be nice, that just isn't going to happen.
What I mean is, is that while I'm as much of a fan as the next person of the old school method of narrating a modification matrix (e.g. subtract one for every three levels you are below the opponent and add one for every two levels you are above and all that sort of thing), sometimes a chart speaks a thousand words.
I've taken to drawing up these charts myself to help the game go faster (e.g. an opposed skill check chart for thieves) but I'd pay good money for someone else to do all the drudge work of finding all the text where it says "add X per Y", converting that into a table and selling me the results as a nicely packaged "Referees' Reference".
Leaving it as a text based description, in my view, reduces accessibility to the modern gamer looking for the refreshing breath of air of the handsome back-to-basics approach S&S engenders.
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Post by shadowwarrior on Jul 10, 2009 16:03:36 GMT -5
I didn't mean howler in the sense that it breaks the game but they are pretty bad typos that give a sloppy/bad impression of an otherwise excellent product (i.e. that there wasn't much proof reading).
If it helps, I'm happy to go through the book and point out anything I come across that looks as though it could do with being changed in any revised deluxe printing. I couldn't see any problem in my printing of page 126 - what was the problem?
In the meantime, here's another one for the pot and I've added reference to the others to make it more useful.
Character Classes, page 17, para 1: Reads: "There are... two "elite" sub-classes: Paladin (Warrior) and Assassin (Thief)" Should read: "There are five "elite" sub-classes: two of Warrior (Paladin and Ranger), one of Wizard (Necromancer), one of Priest (Druid) and one of Thief (Assassin). On a side note, not sure what happened to the Bard from Monstrous Mayhem - was that an intentional or accidental omission? Much more useful/usable as a PC than the Necromancer (which to be honest was probably best left for Eldritch Witchery).
Detect and Dispel Evil, page 19, para 1: Reads: "...requiring the creature to immediately roll a saving throw or be banished". Problem: does not specify what sort of saving throw. I suggest possibly an opposed charisma check would be appropriate with a level adjustment on each side (-1 per level you are below the other, +1 per level above). This stops a 1st level paladin from being able to dispel a demon lord with a flick of an eyebrow. As it stands I think this is very unbalanced.
Wild Stealth, page 21, para 1: Reads: "... can move silently with a 90% sucess rate (or +5 on a Dexterity check if using the 2d6 unified option)" Should Read: "...can move silently, gaining a +5 on a Dexterity check to do so".
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Post by shadowwarrior on Jul 9, 2009 12:49:46 GMT -5
Are you interested in collecting errata for the deluxe edition because I've noticed a couple of real howlers in there?
The pre-amble to the character section talks about S&S having two elite paths, of course there are many more.
The section on Rangers talks about using the optional 2d6 system instead of the standard precentile system.
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